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by Ray Farmer

What are the beliefs of the Mormon Church regarding blood atonement?
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Ray Farmer
Jealous of and Zealous for the Book of MormonSun
Let me present a different perspective. Rather than arguing if "Blood atonement" is/was/never was a doctrine of the Church, let us see if the attitude behind "Bood Atonement" still exists in the modern Church. That is, is the view that there are some sins that Jesus doesn't cover in the believer that must be paid by the suffering of the individual. This is actually current.

Let's look at very recent talks by Dallin Oaks, probably the next prophet and president of the Church.

Kingdoms of Glory by Dallin H. Oaks, October 2023
The revealed doctrine of the restored Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints teaches that all the children of God—with exceptions too limited to consider here—will ultimately inherit one of three kingdoms of glory, even the least of which “surpasses all understanding." After a period in which the disobedient suffer for their sins, which suffering prepares them for what is to follow, all will be resurrected and proceed to the Final Judgment of the Lord Jesus Christ. There, our loving Savior, who, we are taught, “glorifies the Father, and saves all the works of his hands," will send all the children of God to one of these kingdoms of glory according to the desires manifested through their choices.

So, we see that before the judgement, we will have to suffer and pay for unrepentant sins.

Kingdoms of Glory by Dallin H. Oaks, October 2023
The revealing description of those assigned to the lowest of the kingdoms of glory, the telestial, is “he who cannot abide … a terrestrial glory". That describes those who reject the Savior and have observed no divine limits on their behavior. This is the kingdom where the wicked abide, after they have suffered for their sins. These are described in modern revelation as “they who received not the gospel of Christ, neither the testimony of Jesus."

The above should not lead to the belief that only "those who reject the Savior and have observed no divine limits on their behavior" will suffer and pay for their sins before entering the Father’s House. Indeed, everyone, saint or sinner, will have to cover, with their own payment by suffering, for unrepentant sins.

Divine Love in the Father's Plan by Dallin H. Oaks, April 2022
In the Final Judgment each of us will be judged according to our deeds and the desires of our hearts. Before that, we will need to suffer for our unrepented sins. The scriptures are clear on that.

Divine Helps for Mortality by Dallin H. Oaks, April 2025
By far, God’s strongest mortal help was His provision of a Savior, Jesus Christ, who would suffer to pay the price and provide forgiveness for repented sins. That merciful and glorious Atonement explains why faith in the Lord Jesus Christ is the first principle of the gospel. His Atonement “bringeth to pass the resurrection of the dead" (Alma 42:23), and it “atone[s] for the sins of the world" (Alma 34:8), erasing all of our repented sins and giving our Savior power to succor us in our mortal infirmities.

So, Jesus, according to the above, only covers those sins that are repented of. Any sins left unrepentant will have to be paid by the individual through his/her own personal suffering!

When Joseph Smith wrote the Articles of Faith, he included Articles of Faith 2, "We believe that men will be punished for their own sins".

And, yes, one actually can pay for their unrepentant sins!

Kingdoms of Glory by Dallin H. Oaks, October 2023 Loving
“And after they have paid the penalty of their transgressions, and are washed clean, shall receive a reward according to their works, for they are heirs of salvation”.

Anyway, the idea behind Brigham's Blood Atonement is the same. Jesus only covers sins that one repented of. We will have to suffer for the remainder and pay up before being glorified in the Father's House. Blood Atonement moved the suffering from postmortem to premortem and introduced the shedding of the sinner’s blood, but the basic idea is the same.

We could get into the root of the false doctrine and the reason why this precept makes LDSaints non-Christian despite the name of their church and their logo. More important we can explore why it is impossible to pay for our own sins no matter the suffering, bloodshed and punishment involved. But I will leave this as it is until someone expresses some interest in continuing. But before I end, I must make it clear that this concept of paying for one’s own sins is contrary to everything in the Book of Mormon. Don’t make the mistake of thinking all of this is derived from that Book.

DAVID FARNSWORTH

Actually, the Book of Mormon writes that Christ’s grace is necessary “after all we can do”.

Which does not contradict Dallin Oaks, or any other LDS apostle, past or present.

RAY FARMER

Like many other scriptures, LDSaints have misinterpreted this one, too. You think it says we are saved by grace after doing stuff. You do not consider the ALL in “after all we can do”.

You should probably review:

The Gift of Grace

President Dieter F. Uchtdorf Says,

….I wonder if sometimes we misinterpret the phrase “after all we can do.”
Have any of us done all that we can do? Does God wait until we’ve expended every effort before He will intervene in our lives with His saving grace?
Nephi labored so diligently to persuade his children and brethren “to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God.” After all, that is what we can do! And that is our task in mortality!”

I ask you, are you doing all that you can do? Are you abiding in the Celestial Law? You know, if you are not abiding that law you are going to some inferior Kingdom with the Protestants! Are you constantly, on a weekly basis having to repent and renew your covenants because simply you are not living the Celestial Law?

Are you faithful to all the laws, ordinances, covenants, oaths, commandments, inspired policies? Are you doing that with ALL your heart and ALL your might and All your mind? And are you doing that without the slightest deviation or wavering? Jesus taught it is even more important to have a grip on your thoughts, words as well as deeds. How you doing there? Are your thoughts always clean and your words only to edifying? Do you love God with ALL your heart mind and strength? How about love to your neighbor? Are you doing God’s will on earth as they do it in Heaven?

Kingdoms of Glory by Dallin H. Oaks October 2023
Through revelation, God has revealed the eternal laws, ordinances, and covenants that must be observed to develop the godly attributes necessary to realize this divine potential.

Are you observing these to the point you could say you are doing all you can do? They MUST be observed with all you got. Are you?

Kingdoms of Glory by Dallin H. Oaks October 2023
Those who do not choose ‘to abide the law of a celestial kingdom’ will inherit another kingdom of glory, lesser than the celestial but suited to the laws they have chosen and can comfortably “abide”.

Are you comfortably abiding the Celestial Law, easily choosing always and in every circumstance to keep that law, never slacking or wavering?

President Russell M. Nelson
During this mortal life you get to choose which laws you are willing to obey—those of the celestial kingdom, or the terrestrial, or the telestial…

Are you always choosing to live by the Celestial Law without violation? Are you really doing this all you can do? Sorry, you would have me believe that grace is extended AFTER all you can do. You are without grace. We know how that ends.

“He who is not able to abide the law of a celestial kingdom cannot abide a celestial glory”.

You are able, supposedly. But you are unwilling.

PBS Documentary by Dallin H. Oaks July 2007
….the purpose of the commandments and the purpose of the temple and its ordinances, is to qualify people for that celestial kingdom.

Are you “qualifying” yourself for the Celestial Kingdom by doing “all you can do”? No? than you don’t qualify.

Kingdoms of Glory by Dallin H. Oaks October 2023
…the restored Church is the revealed commandments and covenants that offer all the children of God the sacred privilege of qualifying for the highest degree of glory in the celestial kingdom.

Are you qualifying yourself for the Celestial Kingdom by doing “all you can do” to keep these revealed commandments and covenants?

Divine Love in the Father’s Plan by Dallin H. Oaks April 2022
…the faithful who keep their covenants will have the opportunity to qualify for every promised blessing.

Kingdoms of Glory by Dallin H. Oaks October 2023
As we describe the nature and requirements of each of the three kingdoms in the Father’s plan, we begin with the highest, which is the focus of the divine commandments and ordinances God has revealed through The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

Yes, there are requirements, not targets. Are you doing all that you can to meet those requirements?

Of course you are not doing all that you can do. You are always choosing to do evil. Several times a day, hundreds of times a week, thousands of times a month.

Oaks gives the insight you need. I am sure that it is not what he meant.

Divine Helps for Mortality by Dallin H. Oaks April 2025
Those who choose good would progress toward their eternal destiny. Those who choose evil—as all would do in the various temptations of mortality—would need saving help, which a loving God designed to provide.

I think we established that you are not consistently choosing good or coming even remotely close to doing all that you can do to conform to Celestial Law. Basically, like every mortal soul, you are always choosing evil. You are not doing what you know you should do. You cannot meet the requirements since you are not doing all that you can do. In the end you and everyone else will “need saving help, which a loving God designed to provide”.

To summarize, you and I are NOT doing “all that we can do”. According to your interpretation, if you are not doing all that you can do you will not get any grace because that comes only “after all you can do” which is not you.

What LDSaints have to figure out is how to access that grace before it is too late. It isn’t by abiding laws. By the Law men are not saved. they are cut off.

2 Nephi 2:5 And men are instructed sufficiently that they know good from evil. And the law is given unto men. And by the law no flesh is justified; or, by the law men are cut off. Yea, by the temporal law they were cut off; and also, by the spiritual law they perish from that which is good, and become miserable forever.

And you are not saved by grace after all you can do (your horrendous spin) because nobody is doing all that they can do.

As Uchtdorf says, “believe in Christ, and be reconciled to God.” Plant that seed in your heart and experiment on that word.

Alma 33
19. Behold, he was spoken of by Moses; yea, and behold a type was raised up in the wilderness, that whosoever would look upon it might live. And many did look and live.
20. But few understood the meaning of those things, and this because of the hardness of their hearts. But there were many who were so hardened that they would not look, therefore they perished. Now the reason they would not look is because they did not believe that it would heal them.
21. O my brethren, if ye could be healed by merely casting about your eyes that ye might be healed, would ye not behold quickly, or would ye rather harden your hearts in unbelief, and be slothful, that ye would not cast about your eyes, that ye might perish?
22. If so, wo shall come upon you; but if not so, then cast about your eyes and begin to believe in the Son of God, that he will come to redeem his people, and that he shall suffer and die to atone for their sins; and that he shall rise again from the dead, which shall bring to pass the resurrection, that all men shall stand before him, to be judged at the last and judgment day, according to their works.
23. And now, my brethren, I desire that ye shall plant this word in your hearts, and as it beginneth to swell even so nourish it by your faith. And behold, it will become a tree, springing up in you unto everlasting life. And then may God grant unto you that your burdens may be light, through the joy of his Son. And even all this can ye do if ye will. Amen.

Those who will live with God in His kingdom are not those who think they must be actually doing all that they can do in order to get grace but those who believe in the Son of God, that he will come to redeem his people, and that he shall suffer and die to atone for their sins.

And they will be saved only by grace.

DAVID FARNSWORTH

I do not disagree. At all.

As a result, I think the person misinterpreting the meaning of these verses is you. Not us.

RAY FARMER

Just quoting Living Oracles.

So, you always do all that you can do. Good for you, unprofitable servant. Remember, Requirements are just that. Requirements. And those things that are musts are just that: musts. God cannot look at sin with the least degree of allowance. None of this “I tried”, or “nobody is perfect”, “we all sin” That is the world talking to you. According to Oaks, there are “musts” and “requirements”. If you can’t abide in those, you miss the Celestial Kingdom.

Or will you apply to a little piece of grace? Not a lot, mind you. Just enough to make up for when you didn’t “do all that you can do”. The trouble is, that grace comes only AFTER you do all that you can do. If you fall short of your divine potential, being as perfect as the Father and the Son, grace does not kick in.

GEORGE DECOO

It’s in the Book of Mormon too.

“Therefore, if ye shall come unto me, or shall desire to come unto me, and rememberest that thy brother hath aught against thee—

“Go thy way unto thy brother, and first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come unto me with full purpose of heart, and I will receive you.

“Agree with thine adversary quickly while thou art in the way with him, lest at any time he shall get thee, and thou shalt be cast into prison.

“Verily, verily, I say unto thee, thou shalt by no means come out thence until thou hast paid the uttermost senine. And while ye are in prison can ye pay even one senine? Verily, verily, I say unto you, Nay” (3 Nephi 12:23–26).

In the New Testament version it says farthing instead of senine. But whatever the monetary denomination is, the principle is the same: we will not be freed from whatever prison we end up in until all debts are paid. Whether we ask Jesus to pay that debt through repentance, or pay it ourselves, is up to us.

You need to repent for suggesting that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is not a Christian church while you claim to believe in the Book of Mormon.

RAY FARMER

I suppose there was a time when I would have concluded that a church that uses the name of the Lord in its designation and has a clipart logo with an image of Jesus must be Christian. I am older and wiser now. I simply cannot call such Christian who believe that we can suffer for our own sins and pay the debt on our own. That is nothing short of anti-Christ.

You say, "we will not be freed from whatever prison we end up in until all debts are paid. Whether we ask Jesus to pay that debt through repentance, or pay it ourselves, is up to us." but the very citation you share teaches that we CAN NOT make that payment! You quote, "thou shalt by no means come out thence until thou hast paid the uttermost senine. And while ye are in prison can ye pay even one senine? Verily, verily, I say unto you, Nay”.

The sacrifice for your sins had to be accomplished by a lamb without blemish. Are you a lamb without blemish? The remission of sins came by the shedding of blood. In your prison, there are no bodies and so there is no blood. Whose blood will be shed there? yours? You will have no blood or body and therefore you cannot suffer even as Jesus (Section 19).

Hebrews 9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.

Matthew 26:28 For this is MY BLOOD of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Romans 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through FAITH IN HIS BLOOD, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

Alma 5:21 I say unto you, ye will know at that day that ye cannot be saved; for there can no man be saved except his garments are washed white; yea, his garments must be purified until they are cleansed from all stain, through the blood of him of whom it has been spoken by our fathers, who should come to redeem his people from their sins.

If you don't “agree with your adversary while you are in the way with Him”, that is, if you are not reconciled to God through Christ in this “day of probation” before your death and imprisonment, you must remain in your sins. You cannot pay a farthing. All your suffering is punishment for ever abusing His laws, not payment.

The Book of Mormon warns you of this foolish doctrine! Read 2 Nephi 28

8. And there shall also be many which shall say: Eat, drink, and be merry; nevertheless, fear God--he will justify in committing a little sin; yea, lie a little, take the advantage of one because of his words, dig a pit for thy neighbor; there is no harm in this; and do all these things, for tomorrow we die; and if it so be that we are guilty, God will beat us with a few stripes, and at last we shall be saved in the kingdom of God.
9. Yea, and there shall be many which shall teach after this manner, false and vain and foolish doctrines,

But we should know better.

2 Nephi 9:38 And, in fine, wo unto all those who die in their sins; for they shall return to God, and behold his face, and remain in their sins.

Mosiah 2:33 For behold, there is a wo pronounced upon him who listeth to obey that spirit; for if he listeth to obey him, and remaineth and dieth in his sins, the same drinketh damnation to his own soul; for he receiveth for his wages an everlasting punishment, having transgressed the law of God contrary to his own knowledge.

Mosiah 2:38 Therefore if that man repenteth not, and remaineth and dieth an enemy to God, the demands of divine justice do awaken his immortal soul to a lively sense of his own guilt, which doth cause him to shrink from the presence of the Lord, and doth fill his breast with guilt, and pain, and anguish, which is like an unquenchable fire, whose flame ascendeth up forever and ever.

Clearly, those who expect to pay for their own sins, to be punished until every senine is paid up, can hardly be called Christian or even a believer in the Book of Mormon.

Helaman 5:9 ....there is no other way nor means whereby man can be saved, only through the atoning blood of Jesus Christ, who shall come; yea, remember that he cometh to redeem the world.

LDSaints think they have come with another way and means wherein a person can be saved. They believe “man shall be punished for his own sins” AoF 2) rather than relying of Christ to bear the punishment, which is the only way and means.

2 Nephi 10:24 ...remember, after ye are reconciled unto God, that it is only in and through the grace of God that ye are saved.