Reformation 1
I discovered something in our book that turns out to be the basis of deeper understanding. It is easy to miss.
Alma 6:7. We see the spirit draw a thick line between Nehor and Gideon. When I can get to my laptop, we can explore Alma's preaching to the people of zarahemla addressing the teachings of the Order of Nehor.
Paul, in the Epistles, was addressing problems and questions. A key to understanding Paul is figuring out what he was addressing! His people knew the issues. Paul knew the issues. But we are left to figure the out. But once we do it all makes sense. Additionally, once we know the issues he was addressing, we are unlikely to apply a verse to an issue that was not being addressed!
For example, Paul was not addressing kingdoms of glory or, in fact, any eternal reward in 1 Corinthians 15. He was only discussing the resurrection.
Anyway, to understand what and who Alma was speaking to gives our chapters better and more practical understanding of our day.
Just off the top of my head, I listed 33 features of the Order of Nehor that was addressed by Alma!
Alma 6:7 And now it came to pass that when Alma had made these regulations he departed from them, yea, from the church which was in the city of Zarahemla, and went over upon the east of the river Sidon, into the valley of Gideon, there having been a city built, which was called the city of Gideon, which was in the valley that was called Gideon, being called after the man who was slain by the hand of Nehor with the sword.
This verse is a think line that separates consideration of the Order of Nehors and The Holy Order.
Justin: "Why is it so?" Gary:Because we are allowed to see a compare and contrast between the two theologies. Alma is teaching against the Order of Nehor.
Justin: "Oh I see.
" Gary:We can find out a lot about the Order of Nehor. we see it throughout the Book of Mormon.
Let's look at the Order of Nehor and see how it can get a better understanding of the chapters we are studying.
And he had gone about among the people, preaching to them that which he termed to be the word of God, bearing down against the church; declaring unto the people that every priest and teacher ought to become popular; and they ought not to labor with their hands, but that they ought to be supported by the people. And he also testified unto the people that all mankind should be saved at the last day, and that they need not fear nor tremble, but that they might lift up their heads and rejoice; for the Lord had created all men, and had also redeemed all men; and, in the end, all men should have eternal life.
Let us break this down.
And he had gone about among the people,
Observation: This is unlike Alma. We will see that Alma was too busy. He tells the people in Gideon,
14:51 ....it is the first time that I have spoken unto you by the words of my mouth, I having been wholly confined to the judgment-seat, having had much business that I could not come unto you. And even I could not have come now at this time were it not that the judgment-seat hath been given to another.
We even see him leading armies!
Alma 2:16 Now Alma, being the chief judge and the governor of the people of Nephi, therefore he went up with his people, yea, with his captains, and chief captains, yea, at the head of his armies, against the Amlicites to battle.
But He was of the Holy Order. He comes to realize, I think, that this should be his focus.
11:39 And now I say unto you that this is the order after which I am called, yea, to preach unto my beloved brethren, yea, and every one that dwelleth in the land; yea, to preach unto all, both old and young, both bond and free; yea, I say unto you the aged, and also the middle aged, and the rising generation; yea, to cry unto them that they must repent and be born again.
The Twelve apostles of the Lord were almost drawn away from this Order in an effort to care for the widows.
Acts 6
1. AND in those days, when the number of the disciples was multiplied, there arose a murmuring of the Grecians against the Hebrews, because their widows were neglected in the daily ministration.
2. Then the twelve called the multitude of the disciples unto them, and said, It is not reason that we should leave the word of God, and serve tables.
3. Wherefore, brethren, look ye out among you seven men of honest report, full of the Holy Ghost and wisdom, whom we may appoint over this business.
4. But we will give ourselves continually to prayer, and to the ministry of the word.
So, while Alma was busy, Nehor was going among the people preaching!
Justin: "
Alma 1: “…they ought not to labor with their hands, but that they ought to be supported by the people”.
Isn't this what all pastors in the various denominations do? Their salary comes from the tithes received for they are fulltime pastors."
Gary:
preaching to them that which he termed to be the word of God
Observation: Eveyone who preaches, whether prophets or charletans, will always make this claim. They will be able to point to chapter and verse. They will claim revelation. Whatever the technique, they always claim they are preaching the Word of God.
bearing down against the church
Observation: This is not as terrible as one would think at first. Good missionaries will eventually have to make comparisons and contrasts. It is good to "Use boldness, but not overbearance; and also see that ye bridle all your passions, that ye may be filled with love", but debates that start out as an interesting exchange can generate more heat than light. We read that members of the church after some persecution, started to retaliate.
Alma 1:22. Nevertheless, there were many among them who began to be proud, and began to contend warmly with their adversaries, even unto blows; yea, they would smite one another with their fists.
The LDSaints started their missionary efforts by declaring that God told Joseph that all the churches were corrupt. This was probably not a good start! This could be termed bearing down. Next thing we see is tar and feathers!
declaring unto the people that every priest and teacher ought to become popular
Observation: This "popular" is a little hard for me to understand. It could mean that they were to be elected and paid for their leadership. Or it could mean that they should be held by the people in higher esteem than everyone else. This may be the case since the next clause talks about a paid ministry. The Church of the Lamb, or the Holy Order is not like that.
Alma 1:26 And when the priests left their labor to impart the word of God unto the people, the people also left their labors to hear the word of God. And when the priest had imparted unto them the word of God they all returned again diligently unto their labors; and the priest, not esteeming himself above his hearers, for the preacher was no better than the hearer, neither was the teacher any better than the learner; and thus they were all equal, and they did all labor, every man according to his strength.
When we study Galatians we will see that several things that Paul wrote was to show that even the Apostles should not be over-regarded.
To your comment, there is nothing wrong with a paid ministry.
1 Corinthians 9:6. Or I only and Barnabas, have not we power to forbear working?
7. Who goeth a warfare any time at his own charges? who planteth a vineyard, and eateth not of the fruit thereof? or who feedeth a flock, and eateth not of the milk of the flock?
8. Say I these things as a man? or saith not the law the same also?
9. For it is written in the law of Moses, Thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care for oxen?
10. Or saith he it altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, this is written: that he that ploweth should plow in hope; and that he that thresheth in hope should be partaker of his hope.
11. If we have sown unto you spiritual things, is it a great thing if we shall reap your carnal things?
1 Timothy 5:18. For the scripture saith, Thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn. And, The labourer is worthy of his reward.
However, we find that Nehor was misusing the funds on costly apparel
Alma 1:6 And he began to be lifted up in the pride of his heart, and to wear very costly apparel
Justin: "But isn't paid ministry what was spoken against in Alma 1?"
Gary:
The ox plowing eats only “what is placed before him”. Matthew 10:10 ….the workman is worthy of his meat.
It is neither promoted nor condemned that I can see.
This is worth considering:
2 Nephi 26
29. He commandeth that there shall be no priestcrafts; for, behold, priestcrafts are that men preach and set themselves up for a light unto the world, that they may get gain and praise of the world; but they seek not the welfare of Zion.
30. Behold, the Lord hath forbidden this thing; wherefore, the Lord God hath given a commandment that all men should have charity, which charity is love. And except they should have charity they were nothing. Wherefore, if they should have charity they would not suffer the laborer in Zion to perish.
31. But the laborer in Zion shall labor for Zion; for if they labor for money they shall perish.
Justin: "
Because if you compare it with other parts of the Book of Mormon, we see that the prophets advocate for an unpaid ministry, for the ministers of Christ are to labor with their own hands.
10h ago
Gary:
One can be paid but they should not be working for the money. They should be working for Zion. We are talking motive.
I like the “set themselves up for a light unto the world”. I think this is the popular that may be mentioned.
“other parts of the Book of Mormon”. Any reference?
Justin: "
Mosiah 18
24 And he also commanded them that the priests whom he had ordained should labor with their own hands for their support.
26 And the priests were not to depend upon the people for their support; but for their labor they were to receive the grace of God, that they might wax strong in the Spirit, having the knowledge of God, that they might teach with power and authority from God.
"Gary:
Luke 10:5. And into whatsoever house ye enter, first say, Peace be to this house.
7. And in the same house remain, eating and drinking such things as they give: for the labourer is worthy of his hire. Go not from house to house.
8. And into whatsoever city ye enter, and they receive you, eat such things as are set before you:
Justin: "
Yes I do think that 2 Nephi 26:29 is talking about striving to become popular
"Gary:
I think the “the priests were not to depend upon the people for their support” means that the people should not be the sole source. Who knows?
Justin: "
Mosiah 27
5 Yea, and all their priests and teachers should labor with their own hands for their support, in all cases save it were in sickness, or in much want; and doing these things, they did abound in the grace of God.
Yep, but pastors nowadays depend solely upon tithings and donations
"Gary:
I think that verse in Luke 10 is significant. Certainly a prophet going among the people could not hold down a job, and so they were to accept help in room and board. But they didn’t depend on a household. They should be able to move along if required.
Either way, those of the Holy Order should not be so busy as to not be able to carry on the work of the Order.
“in all cases save it were in sickness, or in much want”. So if a minister is old and sick or for some reason is not able to pay his bills by working with his hands, charity would require sending cash his way.
The old testament idea of tithing was to give money to those priests who worked the alters, along with widows and fatherless and strangers in the land. That’s why Malachi says to pay tithes that there may be meat in the house!
Nevertheless, getting rich was not the idea.
Justin: "I think that it's with the verses in Mosiah that I've justed quoted in mind, that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints does not want full-time callings in wards and with stakes. That's why bishops and stake president have to have a full-time job apart from their respective callings in the Church.
"Gary:
I think the key to the whole issue is “the laborer in Zion shall labor for Zion; for if they labor for money they shall perish”.
I have seen it both ways. Neither is condemned.
Justin: "
But we have to know that scriptures cannot contradict itself. It has to be one way or another.
But I do agree that tithings can be given to ministers of Christ if they are in dire need of it, and not a means by which they can get rich.
"Gary:
The problem I see is when a minister is influenced by the consideration that he has bills to pay. He may refrain from telling his congregation what they need to hear for fear of the impact preaching the absolute truth on his ability to meet obligations.
I would go with Paul on not muzzling the ox. “If we have sown unto you spiritual things, is it a great thing if we shall reap your carnal things?”
Besides, the Apostles get paid and a bunch of fringe benefits. I have no problem with that. One of the benefits is that their kids and grand kids get free college at BYU. That amounts to a chunk of change. I am fine with that.
Additionally, when the “choice seer” apprears, he will do only the work of the Lord. 2 Nephi 3
7. Yea, Joseph truly said: Thus saith the Lord unto me: A choice seer will I raise up out of the fruit of thy loins; and he shall be esteemed highly among the fruit of thy loins. And unto him will I give commandment that he shall do a work for the fruit of thy loins, his brethren, which shall be of great worth unto them, even to the bringing of them to the knowledge of the covenants which I have made with thy fathers.
8. And I will give unto him a commandment that he shall do none other work, save the work which I shall command him. And I will make him great in mine eyes; for he shall do my work.
Anyway, we see Alma was so caught up in working with his hands that he didn’t go among the people. We will see the ugly results of that neglect as we continue on.
Luke 10:4 we see the instructions to the Apostles,
Carry neither purse, nor scrip, nor shoes: and salute no man by the way.
But later,
Luke 22
35. And he said unto them, When I sent you without purse, and scrip, and shoes, lacked ye any thing? And they said, Nothing. 36. Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.
Justin: "
Yep, it's never good to be preoccupied with one aspect, one must be holistic in doing the work of the Lord, which in itself has many different aspects to it.
"Gary:
contradiction? or different circumstances?
Anyway, we get to Nehor's doctrine in Alma 1:4 And he also testified unto the people that all mankind should be saved at the last day, and that they need not fear nor tremble, but that they might lift up their heads and rejoice; for the Lord had created all men, and had also redeemed all men; and, in the end, all men should have eternal life.
This is the backbone of the chapters we are reading. Nehor was executed.
Alma 1:16 Nevertheless, this did not put an end to the spreading of priestcraft through the land; for there were many who loved the vain things of the world, and they went forth preaching false doctrines; and this they did for the sake of riches and honor.
I think the Order of Nehor spread to Zarahemla and the the ordained priests and teachers of the church were not prepared to counter the spread.
That may seem harsh, but we find that Alma had to put the church in order by excommunicating unbelievers and then he had to appoint more priests and elders 13:42. We see that as the wickedness began in Zarahemla, not all the leaders were upset. Only many of “them”. 3:54, 3:57. Why not all?
In other words, the church at Zarahemla was a mess and Alma had to go among them.
5:26 Now Alma did not grant unto him the office of being high priest over the church, but he retained the office of high priest unto himself; but he delivered the judgment-seat unto Nephihah.And this he did that he himself might go forth among his people, or among the people of Nephi, that he might preach the word of God unto them, to stir them up in remembrance of their duty, and that he might pull down, by the word of God, all the pride and craftiness and all the contentions which were among his people, seeing no way that he might reclaim them save it were in bearing down in pure testimony against them. And thus in the commencement of the ninth year of the reign of the judges over the people of Nephi, Alma delivered up the judgment-seat to Nephihah, and confined himself wholly to the high priesthood of the holy order of God, to the testimony of the word, according to the spirit of revelation and prophecy.
The key idea to understand Alma 5 is found in….
Alma 21:6–8 when Aaron encountered guys from the order of Nehor,
5. Therefore, as Aaron entered into one of their synagogues to preach unto the people, and as he was speaking unto them, behold there arose an Amalekite and began to contend with him, saying: What is that thou hast testified? Hast thou seen an angel? Why do not angels appear unto us? Behold are not this people as good as thy people?
6. Thou also sayest, except we repent we shall perish. How knowest thou the thought and intent of our hearts? How knowest thou that we have cause to repent? How knowest thou that we are not a righteous people? Behold, we have built sanctuaries, and we do assemble ourselves together to worship God. We do believe that God will save all men.
7. Now Aaron said unto him: Believest thou that the Son of God shall come to redeem mankind from their sins?
8. And the man said unto him: We do not believe that thou knowest any such thing. We do not believe in these foolish traditions. We do not believe that thou knowest of things to come, neither do we believe that thy fathers and also that our fathers did know concerning the things which they spake, of that which is to come.
9. Now Aaron began to open the scriptures unto them concerning the coming of Christ, and also concerning the resurrection of the dead, and that there could be no redemption for mankind save it were through the death and sufferings of Christ, and the atonement of his blood.
There is a conflict between “God saves all the works of His hands” of the Nehor types and the “the Son of God shall come to redeem mankind from their sins” of the church of the Lamb.
The writings of Paul can be understood if one understands the issues he was addressing. Sometimes it takes a detective and inspiration to figure out the issue, but once established, Paul’s answer becomes clear and wonderful. If we see the issue that Alma was confronting in Zarahemla, the whole chapter comes alive. That issue is that “We do believe that God will save all men”. Aaron concludes, “there could be no redemption for mankind save it were through the death and sufferings of Christ, and the atonement of his blood”.
I know that was long and involved, but I was setting the scene that we will see in Zarahemla and how Alma counters the “God saves all the works of His hands”. We get the idea of what the Order of Nehor is about, when we continue we will see the effect these ideas had on the people of Zarahemla.