3rd Degree Bully

What are the different levels of heaven in Mormonism, and what do you have to do to get into each one?

Thomas Flake answers

1 Corinthians 15:40–42 40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. 41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory. 42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

This glory of the Sun, of the Moon and of the Stars, we label

The celestial kingdom

The telestial kingdom

And the terrestial kingdom

You can tell from the passage that these are all different “glories” of heaven. It has been said of the Latter-Day church that we preach a “big heaven and a little hell”. Meaning, it is our belief that almost everyone will go to one degree of glory (heaven) or another, but all parts of heaven.

Compare this to our “Christian” brothers and sisters who preach “big hell and little heaven”. Meaning, if you don’t believe the way they tell you, that you are doomed to hell.

I prefer the “Big Heaven” declared in the Bible versus the “Big Hell” not found anywhere in the Bible, but nonetheless preached by some who don’t know Jesus but claim to.

Ray Farmer responds

I was going to let this one go, but I couldn't resist after I read the comment by Former Past Bishop Thomas Flake. The fact that he calls himself "former bishop" gives us an indication that he may have a flakey understanding of LDSaint doctrine. Bishops are always bishops. He should know this. Even I do.

The former bishop states as he attacks Christian (which he puts in scare quotes): Compare this to our “Christian” brothers and sisters who preach “big hell and little heaven”. Meaning, if you don’t believe the way they tell you, that you are doomed to hell. I prefer the “Big Heaven” declared in the Bible versus the “Big Hell” not found anywhere in the Bible, but nonetheless preached by some who don’t know Jesus but claim to.

Having denigrated people who, seemingly, only pretend to be Christian and accusing them of tossing people in hell because "you don’t believe the way they tell you" and "who don’t know Jesus but claim to", I have a hard time ignoring bullies such as this "Christian".

He boldly states that the little heaven and big hell are not found anywhere in the Bible. He should have said, more accurately, that the concept is not found in the "Come Follow Me", the careful abridgement of the scriptures meant for former bishops and similar sheep.

Perhaps not included in the "Come Follow me" is Matthew 7

13. Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
14. Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
15. Beware of false prophets

“Beware of false prophet”s, warns Jesus, who teach the "big Heaven" and the "small hell".

Again in Luke 13:23. Then said one unto him, Lord, are there few that be saved? And he said unto them,
24. Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.

The Book of Mormon teaches that there are a few believers at the foot of the beautiful tree of life in Lehi's vision. But those who are not partaking are in, what? A large and spacious building. A fine congregation!

1 Nephi 11:35. And the multitude of the earth was gathered together; and I beheld that they were in a large and spacious building, like unto the building which my father saw.....

Be that as it may, a false prophet, whose false teachings we see, taught a Big Heaven/Small Hell doctrine similar to the LDSaints.

Alma 1:4 And he also testified unto the people that all mankind should be saved at the last day, and that they need not fear nor tremble, but that they might lift up their heads and rejoice; for the Lord had created all men, and had also redeemed all men; and, in the end, all men should have eternal life.

This is a reflection of the current Dallin Oaks who repeats often that "God saves all the works of His hands".

That's certainly is a big heaven!

The former bishop claims there are three "glories" and that Paul was teaching this in 1 Corinthisans 15:

1 Corinthians 15:40–42 40 "There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another".

This is such an important doctrine. The former bishop sees here "The celestial kingdom, The telestial kingdom, And the terrestial kingdom".

Do you, dear reader, see the word “Kingdom” in Paul’s explanation?? And, yikes! do you see the word “Telestial”? You would think that Paul would have at least made a mention of it since this is such a key doctrine to real "Christians".

Reading the scriptures, one can easily see what Paul was teaching. He was only distinguishing the material difference between temporal bodies and resurrected bodies. He was simply (unless one is darkened by dogma) answering the questions

35. But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?

His answer is

43. It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
44. It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
45. And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
46. Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

He says there are two kinds of bodies

40. There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.

Celestial means in heaven, up there. Terrestrial means down here. The Greek can throw even former bishops.

This is is keeping with the teachings of the Book of Mormon if read without a carefully selected guide. Just exchange Heaven for Celestial and Earth for Terrestrial and one sees that the bifurcation is consistent.

1 Nephi 1:14 And it came to pass that when my father had read and seen many great and marvelous things, he did exclaim many things unto the Lord; such as: Great and marvelous are thy works, O Lord God Almighty! Thy throne is high in the heavens, and thy power, and goodness, and mercy are over all the inhabitants of the earth; and, because thou art merciful, thou wilt not suffer those who come unto thee that they shall perish!

1 Nephi 17:39 He ruleth high in the heavens, for it is his throne, and this earth is his footstool.

1 Nephi 20:13 Mine hand hath also laid the foundation of the earth, and my right hand hath spanned the heavens. I call unto them and they stand up together.

1 Nephi 21:13 Sing, O heavens; and be joyful, O earth; for the feet of those who are in the east shall be established; and break forth into singing, O mountains; for they shall be smitten no more; for the Lord hath comforted his people, and will have mercy upon his afflicted.

2 Nephi 2:14 And now, my sons, I speak unto you these things for your profit and learning; for there is a God, and he hath created all things, both the heavens and the earth, and all things that in them are, both things to act and things to be acted upon.

See also 2 Nephi 8:6, 2 Nephi 8:13, 2 Nephi 8:16, 2 Nephi 23:13, 2 Nephi 25:12, 2 Nephi 29:7, Jacob 2:5, Jacob 7:14, Mosiah 3:8, Mosiah 4:2, Mosiah 4:9, Mosiah 5:15, Mosiah 12:36, Mosiah 13:12, Mosiah 13:19, Mosiah 15:4, Alma 1:15, Alma 5:50, Alma 7:9, Alma 11:39, Alma 18:28, Alma 18:29, Alma 22:10, Helaman 5:32, Helaman 8:24, Helaman 10:7, Helaman 14:12, Helaman 16:18, 3 Nephi 9:15, 3 Nephi 11:12, 3 Nephi 13:10, 3 Nephi 26:3, 3 Nephi 28:16, Mormon 9:11, Mormon 9:17, Ether 4:7, Ether 4:9, Ether 8:14, Ether 13:9

Paul says of these two kinds of bodies, celestial and terrestrial

42. So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

This also is consistent with the Book of Mormon

2 Nephi 9:7 Wherefore, it must needs be an infinite atonement--save it should be an infinite atonement this corruption could not put on incorruption....And if so, this flesh must have laid down to rot and to crumble to its mother earth, to rise no more.

Mosiah 16:10 Even this mortal shall put on immortality, and this corruption shall put on incorruption, and shall be brought to stand before the bar of God, to be judged of him according to their works whether they be good or whether they be evil--

Alma 5:15 Do ye exercise faith in the redemption of him who created you? Do you look forward with an eye of faith, and view this mortal body raised in immortality, and this corruption raised in incorruption, to stand before God to be judged according to the deeds which have been done in the mortal body?

Alma 40:2 Behold, I say unto you, that there is no resurrection--or, I would say, in other words, that this mortal does not put on immortality, this corruption does not put on incorruption--until after the coming of Christ.

Alma 41:4 And if their works are evil they shall be restored unto them for evil. Therefore, all things shall be restored to their proper order, every thing to its natural frame--mortality raised to immortality, corruption to incorruption--

It is clear what Paul was addressing and what he wasn't if you actually look at the verses.

One may draw doctrine out of verses that don't even come close to what one wants them to say, but

Alma 13:20 Now I need not rehearse the matter; what I have said may suffice. Behold, the scriptures are before you; if ye will wrest them it shall be to your own destruction.

In the end, people who actually believe what the Book of Mormon teaches know that there are only two eternal destinations.

1 Nephi 15:35 ....the final state of the souls of men is to dwell in the kingdom of God, or to be cast out because of that justice of which I have spoken.

—-***—- added after reading other, newer, answers —-***—-

Adele says, "Even the glory of the Telestial Kingdom, which the lowest kingdom reserved for sinners who refused to repent in this life (but do so in the next), is described in LDS scripture as “surpassing all understanding.” Joseph Smith is said to have made the statement, “if we could get one little glimpse into the Telestial Kingdom, we would be tempted to commit suicide just to get there.” I believe the LDS view of the Telestial Kingdom generally matches, or exceeds, Christianity’s general concept of Heaven".

There are many problems with this for those who read the Book of Mormon and Bible.

Adele seems to believe, despite what the Book of Mormon teaches, that one can repent after death. A cursory reading of the Book of Mormon will reveal that you cannot repent after this day of probation, this life.

Alma 34:34 Ye cannot say, when ye are brought to that awful crisis, that I will repent, that I will return to my God. Nay, ye cannot say this; for that same spirit which doth possess your bodies at the time that ye go out of this life, that same spirit will have power to possess your body in that eternal world.

The Book of Mormon is adamant, through repetition, that those who die in their sins remain in their sins.

2 Nephi 9:38 And, in fine, wo unto all those who die in their sins; for they shall return to God, and behold his face, and remain in their sins.

Mosiah 2:38 Therefore if that man repenteth not, and remaineth and dieth an enemy to God, the demands of divine justice do awaken his immortal soul to a lively sense of his own guilt, which doth cause him to shrink from the presence of the Lord, and doth fill his breast with guilt, and pain, and anguish, which is like an unquenchable fire, whose flame ascendeth up forever and ever.

Adele says, "the Telestial Kingdom, which the lowest kingdom reserved for sinners who refused to repent in this life (but do so in the next), is described in LDS scripture as “surpassing all understanding.” Joseph Smith is said to have made the statement, “if we could get one little glimpse into the Telestial Kingdom, we would be tempted to commit suicide just to get there.” I believe the LDS view of the Telestial Kingdom generally matches, or exceeds, Christianity’s general concept of Heaven".

Along these lines, Brother Hickenbotham adds details about those glorified in the Telestial Kingdom, "they rejected the gospel, and lived sinful lives without repentance. But, here's the kicker: we believe that thanks to the Atonement of Jesus Christ, even the Telestial Kingdom is a place of incredible glory and happiness. So, even the "lowest" level of heaven is still pretty amazing!"

This is pretty amazing, indeed! The Book of Mormon teaches something about those who lived sinful lives without repentance.

Mosiah 16:5 But remember that he that persists in his own carnal nature, and goes on in the ways of sin and rebellion against God, remaineth in his fallen state and the devil hath all power over him. Therefore, he is as though there was no redemption made, being an enemy to God; and also is the devil an enemy to God.

LDSaints think that the "thanks to the Atonement of Jesus Christ, even the Telestial Kingdom is a place of incredible glory and happiness". But clearly the Book of Mormon teaches that those who persist in their wickedness will find themselves in a state "as though there was no redemption made". That they should believe that one can inherit the Kingdom of God on their own, in their sins, as if no redemption was made, indicates that they are not as Christian as one would assume by the name of their church and their logo.

Alma 11:41 Therefore the wicked remain as though there had been no redemption made, except it be the loosing of the bands of death;

Alma 11:37 And I say unto you again that he cannot save them in their sins; for I cannot deny his word, and he hath said that no unclean thing can inherit the kingdom of heaven; therefore, how can ye be saved, except ye inherit the kingdom of heaven? Therefore, ye cannot be saved in your sins.

To repeat, Michael puts in this heaven, a Kingdom of God, those who "rejected the gospel, and lived sinful lives without repentance". But Paul says

1 Corinthians 6

9. Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10. Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

Thus we see that not only the LDSaints are mistaken, but the early church fathers when the seeds of the "great apostasy" were being planted, are and were horribly wrong. Those who reject the Book of Mormon and rely on these apostates are in great error.

Living with the Holy Ghost in the Telestial Kingdom

Michael says "Latter-day Saints also believe that there is only one heaven wherein God dwells. Other heavens or kingdoms are presided over by Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost".

So, being in the presence of the Holy Ghost is a consolation prize, just below spending eternity with Jesus (!). But what would life be in the presence of that Holy Being, that member of the Godhead, the Holy Ghost, who pleaded and called you all your rebellious life and in vain?

Mormon 9

3. Do ye suppose that ye shall dwell with him under a consciousness of your guilt? Do ye suppose that ye could be happy to dwell with that holy Being, when your souls are racked with a consciousness of guilt that ye have ever abused his laws?
4. Behold, I say unto you that ye would be more miserable to dwell with a holy and just God, under a consciousness of your filthiness before him, than ye would to dwell with the damned souls in hell.
5. For behold, when ye shall be brought to see your nakedness before God, and also the glory of God, and the holiness of Jesus Christ, it will kindle a flame of unquenchable fire upon you.

Jeremiah 2:13 For my people have committed two evils; they have forsaken me the fountain of living waters, and hewed them out cisterns, broken cisterns, that can hold no water.