Universlaism
Is it true that not everyone will be saved by God, but many people will go to hell?
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Michael Hickenbotham
Bachelor's in Engineering & Religion, Brigham Young University (Graduated 1973)5h
The answer depends entirely on who you believe.
Most conservative Christian denominations believe the Bible condemns all but those who claim Jesus Christ as their Savior and believe certain orthodox doctrines. Many liberal Christians believe in universalism (the eventual salvation of all mankind). There are other Christians like Latter-day Saints who believe the overwhelmingly vast majority of the billions of human beings who have ever lived will inherit what is heaven to them. In other words, they won’t be disappointed where they end up because they’ll go where they know they belong based on the laws that they’ve learned to love.
Non-Christian religions believe in a variety of outcomes after this life. Many believe our spirit will reincarnate in various life forms or live additional spiritual lives.
GAry's response
SAYS YOU: "'Is it true that....' The answer depends entirely on who you believe."
ME: Trying to decipher this. You can't be saying that whatever we believe is true is the truth. If I know you, I will assume that you don't believe this. What you did mean will, in my mind, be unclear.
SAYS YOU: "Most conservative Christian denominations believe the Bible condemns all but those who claim Jesus Christ as their Savior and believe certain orthodox doctrines. "
ME: Certainly a straw-man. Faith in Jesus is what saves. Orthodoxy is not a part of saving faith.
SAYS YOU: "Many liberal Christians believe in universalism (the eventual salvation of all mankind). There are other Christians like Latter-day Saints..."
ME: Like it or not, as the LDSaint Church becomes more and more liberal, they slip into the Universalism you claim other liberal churches believe. Let's look at the last General Conference.
Seer Dallin Oaks, in the beginning of his monumental discourse, states:
"The revealed doctrine of the restored Church of J_______ C_____ teaches that all the children of God—with exceptions too limited to consider here—will finally wind up in a kingdom of glory."
He hints that everybody but a minuscule number will be glorified. However, he drops the "limited exceptions" immediately as if there were none and this for the rest of this talk. Says he "He has revealed that He 'glorifies the Father, and saves all the works of his hands'.” And then he proclaims "Under that plan there are multiple kingdoms so that all of His children can be assigned to a kingdom where they can 'abide.'”
Apparently, that is the direction of "modern" doctrine is heading. Oddly, the word "faith" is not to be found in the entire discourse! Rather, "the kingdom of glory we receive in the Final Judgment is determined by the laws we choose to abide by in our Heavenly Father’s loving plan. Under that plan there are multiple kingdoms so that all of His children can be assigned to a kingdom where they can 'abide.'"
Hence, the LDSaint of 2022 will accept the fact that the filthy rebellious wicked will eventually receive salvation, which I assume, to you, means "abiding" in the Kingdom of God in glory. Says your Prophet, Seer and Revelator Oaks, the Father "saves all the works of his hands. That salvation is granted in different kingdoms of glory".
How someone can believe the Book of Mormon and believe the above is beyond me. From beginning to end that Book teaches that the filthy cannot enter the Kingdom, that one cannot be saved in their sins, that if one dies in their sins they remain in their sins at and after the judgement and that mercy has claims only on believers in Christ. To think that the wicked who die in their sins yet enter the Kingdom of God/Heaven makes God a liar for He says clearly that they will not. Yet you will put child abusers, rapists, murderers and the otherwise filthy and faithless in a Kingdom of Glory!
Prophet, Seer and Revelator Bednar says, "Latter-day Saints believe the most loving doctrine ever taught by any Christian, Muslim, Buddhist, Jew, agnostic, atheist or what have you… the overwhelmingly vast majority of the billions of human beings who have ever lived will inherit what is heaven to them. In other words, you won’t be disappointed where you end up because you’ll go where you know you belong based on the laws that you’ve learned to love.”
Again, Revelator Bednar completely leaves out faith in Christ's atoning sacrifice and our acceptance as necessary.
There was a group in the Book of Mormon called the Order of Nehor. A large portion of the Book of Mormon is devoted to warning us about this Order. What did they believe that caused so much attentions?
Alma 1:4 And [Nehor] also testified unto the people that all mankind should be saved at the last day, and that they need not fear nor tremble, but that they might lift up their heads and rejoice; for the Lord had created all men, and had also redeemed all men; and, in the end, all men should have eternal life.
Eventually he confessed that all that was contrary to the Word of God. Soon Nehor
"...did acknowledge, between the heavens and the earth, that what he had taught to the people was contrary to the word of God" (Alma 1:15)
Contrary to Bednar the Revelator, Nehor's plan was more loving in that ALL would be redeemed rather than "the overwhelmingly vast majority of the billions of human beings". That's love!!
The diligent studier of Book of Mormon encounters the Order of Nehor later. What happens is pertinent to the discussion. A member of the Order of Nehor tells Aaron, a Christian missionary, "We do believe that God will save all men" (Alma 21:6)
Consider carefully Aaron's answer to this belief "Believest thou that the Son of God shall come to redeem mankind from their sins?" (Alma 21:7) Clearly Aaron is pointing out that this Universalist doctrine is contrary to the Doctrine that Jesus comes to save people FROM their sins, not IN them.
The follower of Nehor responds "We do not believe in these foolish traditions....neither do we believe that thy fathers and also that our fathers did know concerning the things which they spake" (Alma 21:8)
What did "our fathers" know concerning this topic? Let's look at the meeting of a lawyer and a convert.
"And Zeezrom said again: Shall he save his people in their sins? And Amulek answered and said unto him: I say unto you he shall not, for it is impossible for him to deny his word.... I said he shall not save his people in their sins. And I say unto you again that he cannot save them in their sins; for I cannot deny his word, and he hath said that no unclean thing can inherit the kingdom of heaven; therefore, how can ye be saved, except ye inherit the kingdom of heaven? Therefore, ye cannot be saved in your sins".
1 Nephi 15:32-35
And why can "no unclean thing can inherit the kingdom of heaven"? Nephi explains this to his brothers. Everyone "must be judged of their works, yea, even the works which were done by the temporal body in their days of probation.
Wherefore, if they should die in their wickedness they must be cast off also, as to the things which are spiritual, which are pertaining to righteousness; wherefore, they must be brought to stand before God, to be judged of their works; and if their works have been filthiness they must needs be filthy; and if they be filthy it must needs be that they cannot dwell in the kingdom of God; if so, the kingdom of God must be filthy also.
But behold, I say unto you, the kingdom of God is not filthy, and there cannot any unclean thing enter into the kingdom of God; wherefore there must needs be a place of filthiness prepared for that which is filthy.
And there is a place prepared, yea, even that awful hell...
[Side Note: I know you believe hell is experienced between death and the resurrection. However, we see in the above citation that hell is a place people, the filthy, go AFTER the resurrection and Judgement. Additionally, this life is the days of probation that ends at mortal death. No "purging" after death.]
Alma 5
Alma: I say unto you, can ye think of being saved when you have yielded yourselves to become subjects to the devil?
Oaks: Well, of course. He saves all the works of His hands even those who subjected themselves to the devil!
Alma: I say unto you, ye will know at that day that ye cannot be saved; for there can no man be saved except his garments are washed white; yea, his garments must be purified until they are cleansed from all stain, through the blood of him of whom it has been spoken by our fathers, who should come to redeem his people FROM their sins.
Jesus Adds: And no unclean thing can enter into his kingdom; therefore nothing entereth into his rest save it be those who have washed their garments in my blood, because of their faith, and the repentance of all their sins, and their faithfulness unto the end.
Oaks: Well, I teach all this is done according to laws we keep.
Moroni agrees with His Savior: And wo unto them who shall do these things away and die, for they die in their sins, and they cannot be saved in the kingdom of God; and I speak it according to the words of Christ; and I lie not.
SAYS YOU: "the overwhelmingly vast majority of the billions of human beings who have ever lived will inherit what is heaven to them"
SAYS REVELATOR BEDNAR: "you won’t be disappointed where you end up because you’ll go where you know you belong based on the laws that you’ve learned to love"
ME: I would like to see anything in the scriptures that even hint at this. Instead, we read that people will be "cast out" which implies they are going somewhere they didn't want to go. This is scriptural.
The five foolish virgins wanted to come in because they thought that is where they belong. Too bad, because "the door was shut. Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us. But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not." You were fooling yourself assigning yourself this place. Pretty disappointing.
Jesus also addressed some who thought they should be let in. "Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.
When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are:
Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets.
But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.
There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out”.
We also find, in the Book of Mormon, people imagining that they can plead the wonderful works they did, according to the laws they learned to love. Some, apparently, think they should dwell with God and will even consider lying to Him!
I say unto you, can you imagine to yourselves that ye hear the voice of the Lord, saying unto you, in that day: Come unto me ye blessed, for behold, your works have been the works of righteousness upon the face of the earth?
Yes, Lord. We loved laws. We were righteous enough to feel comfortable dwelling with you!
Or do ye imagine to yourselves that ye can lie unto the Lord in that day, and say--Lord, our works have been righteous works upon the face of the earth--and that he will save you?
No, indeed. Many will pick for themselves a wonderful heaven that they think they deserve but will be cast out of that place which they imagined would be their comfortable inheritance.
Unfortunately, they will be disappointed in this their desire. "...the time is at hand that he must repent or he cannot be saved!"
If only your Prophets, Seers and Revelators had not treated the Book of Mormon and Bible so lightly, they would not be under the condemnation of a darkened mind. This would have been Oaks' message instead:
Behold, he sendeth an invitation unto all men, for the arms of mercy are extended towards them, and he saith: Repent, and I will receive you.
Yea, he saith: Come unto me and ye shall partake of the fruit of the tree of life; yea, ye shall eat and drink of the bread and the waters of life freely;
Yea, come unto me and bring forth works of righteousness, and ye shall not be hewn down and cast into the fire--
For behold, the time is at hand that whosoever bringeth forth not good fruit, or whosoever doeth not the works of righteousness, the same have cause to wail and mourn.
It is a vain thought that people will go shopping for a glorious mansion in which they will be happy beyond comprehension. They will not pick and choose. They will be consigned by the Great Judge. And it will not be a happy ending beyond all comprehensions…NO one will be committing suicide to get there:
Alma 40
25. And then shall the righteous shine forth in the kingdom of God.
26. But behold, an awful death cometh upon the wicked; for they die as to things pertaining to things of righteousness; for they are unclean, and no unclean thing can inherit the kingdom of God; but they are cast out, and consigned to partake of the fruits of their labors or their works, which have been evil; and they drink the dregs of a bitter cup.
Alma 42:1 ...the sinner should be consigned to a state of misery.
And, finally: Helaman 12
25. And I would that all men might be saved. But we read that in the great and last day there are some who shall be cast out, yea, who shall be cast off from the presence of the Lord;
26. Yea, who shall be consigned to a state of endless misery, fulfilling the words which say: They that have done good shall have everlasting life; and they that have done evil shall have everlasting damnation. And thus it is. Amen.