Leader of Restoration

Leader of Restoration

Who was the leader of the restoration of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?

The Church of J____ C____ of Latter-day Saints didn’t exist before April 6, 1830, therefore it couldn’t be restored, only created.

That being said, The Church of J____ C____ of Latter-day Saints is in dire need to be restored. That is, said church must be restored to the fullness of the gospel as found in the Book of Mormon and Bible, from which it has drifted.

Who will be the leader of that restoration? You, maybe.

Adam H. Berkey

The authority of God through the rights of presidency and keys was restored through the The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. The Church itself did not need to be an organization restored. The identity of the saints was also restored, by covenant. These two features of the true Church were brought back to Earth, for they were nowhere to be found.

Ray Farmer

Well, that was a bunch of mere assertions. I guess everyone has the right to imagine and then express no matter how lacking in any basis.

SAYS YOU: "The Church itself did not need to be an organization restored"

ME: IF I were to understand D&C 10, that is exactly the purpose of the Book of Mormon coming forth.

The church is defined:

Doctrine and Covenants 10:67. Behold, this is my doctrine--whosoever repenteth and cometh unto me, the same is my church.
68. Whosoever declareth more or less than this, the same is not of me, but is against me; therefore he is not of my church.

In 1829, when this "revelation" was given, there were all kinds of organizations of the religious type which were stumbling because that the plain and precious parts of the Gospel were unknown. The Lord answered the prayers of the Nephite prophets that the Gospel preached among them might come unto the land of promise to those stumbling.

46. And, behold, all the remainder of this work [Book of Mormon] does contain all those parts of my gospel which my holy prophets, yea, and also my disciples, desired in their prayers should come forth unto this people.
47. And I said unto them, that it should be granted unto them according to their faith in their prayers;
48. Yea, and this was their faith--that my gospel, which I gave unto them that they might preach in their days, might come unto their brethren the Lamanites, and also all that had become Lamanites because of their dissensions.
49. Now, this is not all--their faith in their prayers was that this gospel should be made known also, if it were possible that other nations should possess this land;
50. And thus they did leave a blessing upon this land in their prayers, that whosoever should believe in this gospel in this land might have eternal life;
51. Yea, that it might be free unto all of whatsoever nation, kindred, tongue, or people they may be.
52. And now, behold, according to their faith in their prayers will I bring this part of my gospel to the knowledge of my people. Behold, I do not bring it to destroy that which they have received, but to build it up.

Notice that the Book of Mormon was not to destroy His church (see above), but to build it up. The Lord compared the scattered believers, members of His Church as defined above, as chickens to be gathered together by restoring the Gospel preached by the Nephites, the fulness of the Gospel (All those parts). The marvoulous work and wonder was to be a reformation of existing churches, not the restoration of a true church.

65. For, behold, I will gather them as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, if they will not harden their hearts;66. Yea, if they will come, they may, and partake of the waters of life freely.

The sad fact is that most churches have rejected the fulness of the Gospel as presented by the Nepite prophets. Most grievous is the rejection of the LDSaints of that new and everlasting covenant for they are the ones that proclaim that the Book of Mormon is true while rejecting the contents!

SAYS YOU: "The identity of the saints was also restored, by covenant."

ME: the identity of the Saints of the Church of the Lamb (1 Nephi 14:10,12, 14) is Love. You know this!

John 13:35 By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

There are several clear saint-identifiers in the Book of Mormon.

They Are Members Of The Church Of The Lamb (see above)

1 Nephi 14:12 ...I beheld that the church of the Lamb, who were the saints of God...

They possess the power of God

1 Nephi 14:14...I, Nephi, beheld the power of the Lamb of God, that it descended upon the saints of the church of the Lamb...

They Are Visually Distinct And Separated From The World

1 Nephi 15:28 ...an awful gulf, which separated the wicked from the tree of life, and also from the saints of God.

They Are Faithful, They Endure And They Despise The World

2 Nephi 9:18 But, behold, the righteous, the saints of the Holy One of Israel, they who have believed in the Holy One of Israel, they who have endured the crosses of the world, and despised the shame of it, they shall inherit the kingdom of God, which was prepared for them from the foundation of the world, and their joy shall be full forever.

They Are Joyful

Enos 1:3 Behold, I went to hunt beasts in the forests; and the words which I had often heard my father speak concerning eternal life, and the joy of the saints, sunk deep into my heart.

They Are Led By The Spirit, They Put Off The Natural Man, They Are As Children

Mosiah 3:19 ....he yields to the enticings of the Holy Spirit, and putteth off the natural man and becometh a saint through the atonement of Christ the Lord, and becometh as a child, submissive, meek, humble, patient, full of love, willing to submit to all things which the Lord seeth fit to inflict upon him, even as a child doth submit to his father.

In summary, the Lord covenants with those who repent and believe. It is not a covenant thing. It is all about justification and sanctification.

2 Nephi 30:2 For behold, I say unto you that as many of the Gentiles as will repent are the covenant people of the Lord; and as many of the Jews as will not repent shall be cast off; for the Lord covenanteth with none save it be with them that repent and believe in his Son, who is the Holy One of Israel.

SAYS YOU: "The authority of God...."

ME: Now, there's a subject! If the Holy Ghost was present at any time, and it was always, there was authority.

1 Nephi 10:22 ....And the Holy Ghost giveth authority

1 Nephi 10:11 ...And after they had slain the Messiah, who should come, and after he had been slain he should rise from the dead, and should make himself manifest, by the Holy Ghost, unto the Gentiles....he spake by the power of the Holy Ghost, which power he received by faith on the Son of God....I might see, and hear, and know of these things, by the power of the Holy Ghost, which is the gift of God unto all those who diligently seek him, as well in times of old as in the time that he should manifest himself unto the children of men.

Notice that ordinations were performed by the Power of this Holy Ghost because the Holy Ghost gave all the necessary authority.

Moroni 3:4 And after this manner did they ordain priests and teachers, according to the gifts and callings of God unto men; and they ordained them by the power of the Holy Ghost, which was in them.

Well, I have gone beyond mere assertion. I play it safe. I guard against giving opinions. Many criticize me for extensive scripture citations, but my effort to preach only the truth requires that I "give a reason".

Adam H. Berkey

Ray, when the scriptures denote that things are done by the power of the Holy Ghost that does not mean that the Holy Ghost delegates authority. The Holy Ghost is a testator, witnesses of truth, it does not ordain men to priesthood offices or authorize men to serve callings or in any way bestow authority to serve God.

The Holy Ghost inspires, motivates through its witness of truth, upon which men are compelled to act. Were the Holy Ghost’s role in the Godhead to include delegation of power and authority of the priesthood, the kingdom of God would be in total chaos as men from all climes of life claim to have been authorized by the Holy Ghost to do what in all truth is serving their own whim.

Try to consider that these passages are pointing to a different meaning than what you assume in your writing above. There are certain principles and doctrines that need to define how you interpret the scriptures, and the roles of each member of the godhead, first and foremost, is the single most important truth that Satan tries to attack and get men to corrupt in their understanding.

For instance, Moroni 3:4’s verbage refers to men magnifying their priesthood as they aligned their lives as the Holy Ghost influenced them, being worthy to officiate and receive the inspiration of the Holy Ghost as they served God through their priesthood duties.

Improvement Era 1949

In this connection it is well to remember that no exact form of procedure has been set forth in the revelations. The method of ordination expressed in the Book of Moroni, chapter 3, mentions only the general principles involved and closes with the admonition that ”…they ordained them by the power of the
Holy Ghost, which was in them." (Moroni 3:4) Current instructions in the Melchizedek Priesthood Handbook are in perfect accord with all of the foregoing. The following exerts are taken from page 86 of that handbook:

There are few set forms in the Church. The Holy Spirit directs the priesthood. Rather than following set forms, the brethren should live so that they may have the inspiration of the Spirit of God when called upon to officiate in the ordinances. Then their prayers will be simple, direct, appropriate and effective in the sight of God.

The only forms, either for prayers or ordinances outside the temple, in which the wording is specifically prescribed are those pertaining to baptism and the administration of the sacrament. ... No set forms have been revealed in our day pertaining to the ... conferring the priesthood ... The two essential elements are that each ordinance shall be performed by the authority of the priesthood and in the name of Jesus Christ.

Brethren officiating in ordinances should not repeat memorized prayers, except in two cases referred to above, but exercise the privilege of blessing people and performing other ordinances under the inspiration of the Lord. It follows that faith, humility, and purity of life should rule the lives of all bearing the priesthood that "the vessels of the Lord" might be pure and receptive to the inspiration and the direction of the Almighty.

Ray Farmer

SAYS YOU: "Ray, when the scriptures denote that things are done by the power of the Holy Ghost that does not mean that the Holy Ghost delegates authority."

ME: A careful, open minded reading of the Book of Mormon will teach otherwise. Look at the following examples from the Book of Mormon.

Alma at waters of Mormon, Mosiah 18

12. And now it came to pass that Alma took Helam, he being one of the first, and went and stood forth in the water, and cried, saying: O Lord, pour out thy Spirit upon thy servant, that he may do this work with holiness of heart.
13. And when he had said these words, the Spirit of the Lord was upon him, and he said: Helam, I baptize thee, having authority from the Almighty God....
17. And they were called the church of God, or the church of Christ, from that time forward. And it came to pass that whosoever was baptized by the power and authority of God was added to his church.

Soon thereafter, Alma ordained priests over small congregations.

18. And it came to pass that Alma, having authority from God, ordained priests; even one priest to every fifty of their number did he ordain to preach unto them, and to teach them concerning the things pertaining to the kingdom of God.

As noted previously, these priest were ordained by the power of the Holy Ghost.

Moroni 3:4 And after this manner did they ordain priests and teachers, according to the gifts and callings of God unto men; and they ordained them by the power of the Holy Ghost, which was in them.

How did these priests get their authority after being ordained?

Mosiah 18:26 And the priests ....were to receive the grace of God, that they might wax strong in the Spirit, having the knowledge of God, that they might teach with power and authority from God.

All this seems clear. There is no other explanation regarding where Alma got his authority other than that the Spirit of the Lord was upon him.

Sons of Mosiah

We can see where the sons of Mosiah got their authority. They had the spirit of revelation and prophecy, which is the Holy Ghost.

2.....they had waxed strong in the knowledge of the truth; for they were men of a sound understanding and they had searched the scriptures diligently, that they might know the word of God.
3. But this is not all; they had given themselves to much prayer, and fasting; therefore they had the spirit of prophecy, and the spirit of revelation, and when they taught, they taught with power and authority of God.

Remember, these young men called themselves to be missionaries. So much for not taking this honor unto oneself!

Mosiah 28

1. Now it came to pass that after the sons of Mosiah had done all these things, they took a small number with them and returned to their father, the king, and desired of him that he would grant unto them that they might, with these whom they had selected, go up to the land of Nephi that they might preach the things which they had heard, and that they might impart the word of God to their brethren, the Lamanites--
2. That perhaps they might bring them to the knowledge of the Lord their God, and convince them of the iniquity of their fathers; and that perhaps they might cure them of their hatred towards the Nephites, that they might also be brought to rejoice in the Lord their God, that they might become friendly to one another, and that there should be no more contentions in all the land which the Lord their God had given them.
3. Now they were DESIROUS that salvation should be declared to every creature, for they could not bear that any human soul should perish; yea, even the very thoughts that any soul should endure endless torment did cause them to quake and tremble.
4. And thus did the Spirit of the Lord work upon them....

Notice that this goes along with Section 4 of the Doctrine and Covenants

Doctrine and Covenants 4:3 Therefore, if ye have DESIRES to serve God ye are called to the work;

Being filled with desire is a grace from God.

3 Nephi 19:24 ....they were filled with desire.

This desire is a part of the call and its origin is divine.

Later, they prayed for a portion of the spirit to go with them.

Alma 17:9 ....they fasted much and prayed much that the Lord would grant unto them a portion of his Spirit to go with them, and abide with them, that they might be an instrument in the hands of God....

Ammon explains this power and calling to the king:

34.... I am called by his Holy Spirit to teach these things unto this people, that they may be brought to a knowledge of that which is just and true;
35. And a portion of that Spirit dwelleth in me, which giveth me knowledge, and also power according to my faith and desires which are in God.

Abinadi

And where did Abinadi get his authority?

5. ....the Spirit of the Lord was upon him...
6. And he spake with power and authority from God;

Ammon of the 16 Strongmen

Notice Ammon didn't decline baptising the people for lack of “priesthood” authority. He declined because he was unworthy and, hence, void of the Holy Ghost authority.

Mosiah 21:33 And it came to pass that king Limhi and many of his people were desirous to be baptized; but there was none in the land that had authority from God. And Ammon declined doing this thing, considering himself an unworthy servant.

He couldn’t “do this work with holiness of heart”

Alma, Again

Mosiah 23:17 And it came to pass that none received authority to preach or to teach except it were by him from God. Therefore he consecrated all their priests and all their teachers; and none were consecrated except they were just men.

It must be noted that authority to preach comes from God. Setting them apart had nothing to do with divine authority. The authority was there before consecration.

Nephi and Lehi

We see that Nephi and Lehi were inspired by the Holy Ghost what they should say, which gave them authority

Helaman 5:18. And it came to pass that Nephi and Lehi did preach unto the Lamanites with such great power and authority, for they had power and authority given unto them that they might speak, and they also had what they should speak given unto them--

We knnow that words given is a function of the Holy Ghost

Authority to do all functions of church leadership

Moroni 10:8. And again, I exhort you, my brethren, that ye deny not the gifts of God, for they are many; and they come from the same God. And there are different ways that these gifts are administered; but it is the same God who worketh all in all; and they are given by the manifestations of the Spirit of God unto men, to profit them.
9. For behold, to one is given by the Spirit of God, that he may teach the word of wisdom;
10. And to another, that he may teach the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
11. And to another, exceedingly great faith; and to another, the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
12. And again, to another, that he may work mighty miracles;
13. And again, to another, that he may prophesy concerning all things;
14. And again, to another, the beholding of angels and ministering spirits;
15. And again, to another, all kinds of tongues;
16. And again, to another, the interpretation of languages and of divers kinds of tongues.
17. And all these gifts come by the Spirit of Christ; and they come unto every man severally, according as he will.

SAYS YOU: "The only forms, either for prayers or ordinances outside the temple, in which the wording is specifically prescribed are those pertaining to baptism and the administration of the sacrament"

ME: Baptism and Sacrament must follow the words in the scriptures?! Does the Church use the prayers found in the Book of Mormon?

Baptism

3 Nephi 11:25 Having authority given me of Jesus Christ, I baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. Amen.

Are those the words the LDSaints use? How about these:

Mosiah 18:13 ....the Spirit of the Lord was upon him, and he said: Helam, I baptize thee, having authority from the Almighty God, as a testimony that ye have entered into a covenant to serve him until you are dead as to the mortal body; and may the Spirit of the Lord be poured out upon you; and may he grant unto you eternal life, through the redemption of Christ, whom he has prepared from the foundation of the world.

Sacrament

How about these exact words?

Moroni 5:2 O God, the Eternal Father, we ask thee, in the name of thy Son, Jesus Christ, to bless and sanctify this wine to the souls of all those who drink of it, that they may do it in remembrance of the blood of thy Son, which was shed for them; that they may witness unto thee, O God, the Eternal Father, that they do always remember him, that they may have his Spirit to be with them. Amen.

Why these changes to the exact form?

I gotta go, but the above should suffice to show where the authority of God comes from as taught by the Book of Mormon, the fulness of the Gospel and that the LDSaints have changed the ordinances and have broken the everlasting covenant.

This is more serious that you may think. You tend to take the power of the Holy Ghost and ascribe all kinds of things to the LDS priesthoods. Could this be blasphemy against the Holy Ghost?

Perhaps I will edit this further later.

Adam H. Berkey

Using a phone I have a hard time addressing every point you’ve offered in your response. Immediately, however, Alma had already been ordained to the office of priest in Noah’s council, and his authority stems from that position, not from the Holy Ghost. Again, it was by the power of the Holy Ghost that Alma had aligned his life to that enabled him to escape that wicked life and preach the words of Abinadi, preach repentance and administer baptism, not that the power of the Holy Ghost had ordained or conferred upon him any priesthood authority.

Ray Farmer

SAYS YOU: "Alma had already been ordained to the office of priest in Noah’s council, and his authority stems from that position"

ME: So, you think King Noah had the priesthood authority to ordain Alma?! Oh boy!

SAYS YOU: "it was by the power of the Holy Ghost that Alma had aligned his life to that enabled him to escape that wicked life and preach the words of Abinadi, preach repentance and administer baptism"

ME: That is exactly my point!!

SAYS YOU: "not that the power of the Holy Ghost had ordained or conferred upon him any priesthood authority"

ME: Forget “priesthood authority”. Just think “authority”. Alma was neither a descendant of Aaron nor of Levi. Had you read Ezra and Nehemiah (the books you should have read for "Come Follow Me" this week instead of the carefully selected snippets), you would have come across this. As the temple was being built, the priest and Levites were taking up their posts. Some priests could not trace nor document their lineage back to Aaron, so they couldn't officiate.

Nehemiah 7

64. These sought their register among those that were reckoned by genealogy, but it was not found: therefore were they, as polluted, put from the priesthood.
65. And the Tirshatha said unto them, that they should not eat of the most holy things, till there stood up a priest with Urim and Thummim.

That illustrates how important direct and provable descent from Aaron was.

Alma was not a descendant of Aaron nor Levi. He descended from Joseph.

Hebrews 5:4 And no man taketh this honour [administering performances and ordinances pertaining to the High Priest office] unto himself, but he that is called of God, as was Aaron.

If there was any line of authority thru Zeniff, that was lost when Noah booted the ministers that Zeniff consecrated.

Mosiah 11

1. And now it came to pass that Zeniff conferred the kingdom upon Noah, one of his sons; therefore Noah began to reign in his stead; and he did not walk in the ways of his father.
2. For behold, he did not keep the commandments of God, but he did walk after the desires of his own heart. And he had many wives and concubines. And he did cause his people to commit sin, and do that which was abominable in the sight of the Lord. Yea, and they did commit whoredoms and all manner of wickedness.
3. And he laid a tax of one fifth part of all they possessed...
4. And all this did he take to support himself, and his wives and his concubines; and also his priests, and their wives and their concubines; thus he had changed the affairs of the kingdom.
5. For he put down all the priests that had been consecrated by his father, and consecrated new ones in their stead, such as were lifted up in the pride of their hearts.

The only explanation given in the Book of Mormon as to where Alma got authority to baptize and preach was through the Holy Ghost.

If line of authority was as important as the LDSaints believe and promote, that info would have been supplied. It wasn't supplied. Therefore, we can disregard and move on to what the Book of Mormon consistently teaches which was supplied above.

Rebellious Return

Adam H. Berkey

Sorry I mixed up Noah as the son of Benjamin, not the son of Zeniff. Are you suggesting that Zeniff’s group did not have any priesthood among them? There isn’t any record stating that.

Ray Farmer

The return to the land of Nephi was an act of rebellion. We see that The Lord warned Nephi and company to leave that place.

2 Nephi 5

5. And it came to pass that the Lord did warn me, that I, Nephi, should depart from them and flee into the wilderness, and all those who would go with me.
6. Wherefore, it came to pass that I, Nephi, did take my family, and also Zoram and his family, and Sam, mine elder brother and his family, and Jacob and Joseph, my younger brethren, and also my sisters, and all those who would go with me. And all those who would go with me were those who believed in the warnings and the revelations of God; wherefore, they did hearken unto my words.
7. And we did take our tents and whatsoever things were possible for us, and did journey in the wilderness for the space of many days. And after we had journeyed for the space of many days we did pitch our tents.
8. And my people would that we should call the name of the place Nephi; wherefore, we did call it Nephi.
9. And all those who were with me did take upon them to call themselves the people of Nephi.
10. And we did observe to keep the judgments, and the statutes, and the commandments of the Lord in all things, according to the law of Moses.
11. And the Lord was with us; and we did prosper exceedingly;

As time went on, the people who fled to that spot turned wicked. The righteous again were told to leave that place.

Omni

12. Behold, I am Amaleki, the son of Abinadom. Behold, I will speak unto you somewhat concerning Mosiah, who was made king over the land of Zarahemla; for behold, he being warned of the Lord that he should flee out of the land of Nephi, and as many as would hearken unto the voice of the Lord should also depart out of the land with him, into the wilderness--
13. And it came to pass that he did according as the Lord had commanded him. And they departed out of the land into the wilderness, as many as would hearken unto the voice of the Lord; and they were led by many preachings and prophesyings. And they were admonished continually by the word of God; and they were led by the power of his arm, through the wilderness until they came down into the land which is called the land of Zarahemla.

So, the Lord had them leave "the land of Nephi, or of the land of our fathers' first inheritance" (Mosiah 9:1, Alma 22:28). Then He commanded them to flee or depart out of the land "which had been a resort for the children of Nephi at the time they fled out of the land" (Mosiah 11:13). But despite those commandments to depart, some of these guys thought it was a good idea to go back and massacre the Lamanites. See what happens.

Mosiah 9

1. I, Zeniff, having been taught in all the language of the Nephites, and having had a knowledge of the land of Nephi, or of the land of our fathers' first inheritance, and having been sent as a spy among the Lamanites that I might spy out their forces, that our army might come upon them and destroy them--but when I saw that which was good among them I was desirous that they should not be destroyed.
2. Therefore, I contended with my brethren in the wilderness, for I would that our ruler should make a treaty with them; but he being an austere and a blood-thirsty man commanded that I should be slain; but I was rescued by the shedding of much blood; for father fought against father, and brother against brother, until the greater number of our army was destroyed in the wilderness; and we returned, those of us that were spared, to the land of Zarahemla, to relate that tale to their wives and their children.

Don't feel bad for these dudes. This was not the army of the Nephites. They were bandits and scoundrels. The Nephite armies were never offensive like these guys were. The Nephite Army fought for freedom, their families, for their faith. These guys were genocidal. The whole enterprise was wicked and rebellious.

Zeniff, not a fast learner, still wanted to get the land down there.

Mosiah 9:3. And yet, I being over-zealous to inherit the land of our fathers, collected as many as were desirous to go up to possess the land, and started again on our journey into the wilderness to go up to the land; but we were smitten with famine and sore afflictions; for we were slow to remember the Lord our God.

To be short, the whole enterprise turned into a massive crap storm.

In the above recount, there is nothing that would lead one to believe anyone had the authority to do anything. They only began to call on the Lord when the Lamanites were about to wipe them out and take their stuff. Only then were they awakened!

Mosiah 9

14. For, in the thirteenth year of my reign in the land of Nephi, away on the south of the land of Shilom, when my people were watering and feeding their flocks, and tilling their lands, a numerous host of Lamanites came upon them and began to slay them, and to take off their flocks, and the corn of their fields.
15. Yea, and it came to pass that they fled, all that were not overtaken, even into the city of Nephi, and did call upon me for protection.
16. And it came to pass that I did arm them with bows, and with arrows, with swords, and with cimeters, and with clubs, and with slings, and with all manner of weapons which we could invent, and I and my people did go forth against the Lamanites to battle.
17. Yea, in the strength of the Lord did we go forth to battle against the Lamanites; for I and my people did cry mightily to the Lord that he would deliver us out of the hands of our enemies, for we were awakened to a remembrance of the deliverance of our fathers.

And what deliverance did they remember? Their fathers were told to get out of there! Zeniff's people got religion of a sort right near the end of his reign. That small spark was extinguished by his son, Noah.

Mosiah 11:2 For behold, he did not keep the commandments of God, but he did walk after the desires of his own heart. And he had many wives and concubines. And he did cause his people to commit sin, and do that which was abominable in the sight of the Lord. Yea, and they did commit whoredoms and all manner of wickedness.

Darn Polygamy.

Anyway, in comes Abinadi. Did he have authority? Why, yes he did. He got it by the Holy Ghost.

5. .... the Spirit of the Lord was upon him...
6. And he spake with power and authority from God;

Alma didn't get authority from Abinadi for he fled for his life before Abinadi was taken and murdered.

Alma got his authority the same way Abinadi did.

Mosiah 18

12. And now it came to pass that Alma....stood forth in the water, and cried, saying: O Lord, pour out thy Spirit upon thy servant, that he may do this work with holiness of heart.
13. And when he had said these words, the Spirit of the Lord was upon him, and he said: Helam, I baptize thee, having authority from the Almighty God...both Alma and Helam were buried in the water; and they arose and came forth out of the water rejoicing, being filled with the Spirit.

The point is that there is absolutely no basis for believing that wicked colony had any authority to pass on to Alma. They should not have been where the Lord told them to leave. They were slow to remember their God. They only awoke near the end of Zeniff's life when they were about to get their throats cut.

If authority was as important to the Lord and His gospel workings, there would have been great detail in that regard equal to the importance of the concept. We don’t see any of that.

WARNING - my speculation. In the days of the new LDSaints church were charismatic Methodists who had all of the same signs and gifts that the Latter-day Saints were exhibiting. Many early members were converted Methodists who had experienced these gifts of visions, tongues, healings, swoonings, prophecy etc. We see all of that confusion at the dedication of the Kirtland Temple where one person saw this, another that, some heard this, others that. It was a Methodist camp meeting experience! How could that be explained? This was a problem that needed answers. The answer was….Authority! New members may have had visions before and after joining the church, but only those counted that were experienced with authority. That is why, I believe, authority became a doctrine that had to be emphasized and guarded. You will now detect the emphasis in almost everything you will encounter. That is why Book of Mormon true teachings on authority have to be rejected. my speculation finished.

Well, that was fun.