SAYS YOU: " no where in that chapter does it speak of “eternal life”." ME: Eternal life = saved = inherit the kingdom of God = inherit the kingdom of heaven = salvation.....All the same thing. SAYS YOU: "Jesus is speaking about baptism being essential for salvation" ME: Baptism is essential for those who know about baptism. For those without this law, baptism availeth nothing. I thought this was a basic Book of Mormon teaching and understanding. Moroni 8 22. For behold that all little children are alive in Christ, and also all THEY THAT ARE WITHOUT THE LAW. For the power of redemption cometh on all THEM THAT HAVE NO LAW; wherefore, he that is not condemned, or HE THAT IS UNDER NO CONDEMNATION, CANNOT REPENT; AND UNTO SUCH BAPTISM AVAILETH NOTHING-- 23. But it is mockery before God, denying the mercies of Christ, and the power of his Holy Spirit, and putting trust in dead works. SAYS YOU: "...those who aren’t baptised can’t be saved. Do you agree with this?" ME: Nope. See above, "the power of redemption cometh on all THEM THAT HAVE NO LAW" 2 Nephi 9:25 Wherefore, he has given a law; and where there is no law given there is no punishment; and where there is no punishment there is no condemnation; and where there is no condemnation the mercies of the Holy One of Israel have claim upon them, because of the atonement; for they are delivered by the power of him. Alma 42:17 Now, how could a man repent except he should sin? How could he sin if there was no law? Alma 42:21 And if there was no law given, if men sinned what could justice do, or mercy either, for they would have no claim upon the creature? Romans 4:15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression. Romans 5:13 ....sin is not imputed when there is no law. Mosiah 3:11. For behold, and also his blood atoneth for the sins of those who have fallen by the transgression of Adam, who have died not knowing the will of God concerning them, or who have ignorantly sinned. 12. But wo, wo unto him who knoweth that he rebelleth against God! For salvation cometh to none such except it be through repentance and faith on the Lord Jesus Christ. SAYS YOU: "baptism is merely an outward act of an inward commitment" ME: Not merely an act. It is a witness. I thought this was basic LDS doctrine 2 Nephi 31:7 Know ye not that he was holy? But notwithstanding he being holy, he showeth unto the children of men that, according to the flesh he humbleth himself before the Father, and WITNESSETH UNTO THE FATHER THAT HE WOULD BE OBEDIENT UNTO HIM IN KEEPING HIS COMMANDMENTS. 2 Nephi 31:13 Wherefore, my beloved brethren, I know that if ye shall follow the Son, with full purpose of heart, acting no hypocrisy and no deception before God, but with real intent, repenting of your sins, WITNESSING UNTO THE FATHER THAT YE ARE WILLING TO TAKE UPON YOU THE NAME OF CHRIST, BY BAPTISM-- 2 Nephi 31:14 But, behold, my beloved brethren, thus came the voice of the Son unto me, saying: After ye have repented of your sins, and WITNESSED UNTO THE FATHER THAT YE ARE WILLING TO KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS, by the BAPTISM of water, Mosiah 18:10 Now I say unto you, if this be the desire of your hearts, what have you against BEING BAPTIZED IN THE NAME OF THE LORD, AS A WITNESS before him that ye have entered into a covenant with him, that ye will serve him and keep his commandments, that he may pour out his Spirit more abundantly upon you? Mosiah 21:35 They were desirous to be BAPTIZED AS A WITNESS AND A TESTIMONY that they were willing to serve God with all their hearts; Alma 7:15 ....show unto your God that ye are willing to repent of your sins and enter into a covenant with him to keep his commandments, and WITNESS it unto him this day by going into the waters of baptism. 3 Nephi 7:25 Therefore, there were ordained of Nephi, men unto this ministry, that all such as should come unto them should be baptized with water, and this AS A WITNESS AND A TESTIMONY BEFORE GOD, AND UNTO THE PEOPLE, that they had repented and received a remission of their sins. Moroni 6:2 Neither did they receive any unto baptism save they came forth with a broken heart and a contrite spirit, and WITNESSED unto the church that they truly repented of all their sins. Doctrine and Covenants 20:37 And again, by way of commandment to the church cONCERNING THE MANNER OF BAPTISM--All those who humble themselves before God, and desire to be baptized, and come forth with broken hearts and contrite spirits, and WITNESS before the church that they have truly repented of all their sins, and are willing to take upon them the name of Jesus Christ, having a determination to serve him to the end, and truly manifest by their works that they have received of the Spirit of Christ unto the remission of their sins, shall be received by baptism into his church. SAYS YOU: "we are saved, we are then exalted." ME: You really need to hit the books you suppsedly believe in. Doctrine and Covenants 6:13 ....thou shalt be saved in the kingdom of God, which is the greatest of all the gifts of God; for there is no gift greater than the gift of salvation. You think there is a greater gift (exaltation) than salvation? Not according to this "revelation". SAYS YOU: "Because, as Jesus said, “In my Father’s house are many mansions,” (John 14:2) and simply stating that we inherit the Kingdom of God does not mean that we inherit the same “mansion” in the Father’s house." ME: Oh boy. You guys never quote the whle verse (understandably). May I? John 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. He went to prepare A PLACE (singular). I will quote a few verses so that I cannot be accused of taking an obscure verse. Enos 1:27 ....and he will say unto me: Come unto me, ye blessed, there is A PLACE prepared for you in the mansions of my Father. Amen. Mosiah 26:23 For it is I that taketh upon me the sins of the world; for it is I that hath created them; and it is I that granteth unto him that believeth unto the end A PLACE at my right hand. Mosiah 26:24 ....if they know me they shall come forth, and shall have A PLACE eternally at my right hand. Alma 5:24 ....one can have A PLACE to sit down in the kingdom of God, with Abraham, with Isaac, and with Jacob, and also all the holy prophets.... Alma 18:30 ....The heavens is A PLACE where God dwells and all his holy angels. Ether 12:4 Wherefore, whoso believeth in God might with surety hope for a better world, yea, even A PLACE at the right hand of God, Ether 12:33 And again, I remember that thou hast said that thou hast loved the world, even unto the laying down of thy life for the world, that thou mightest take it again to prepare A PLACE for the children of men. SAYS YOU: "the early Saints were far from having reached this unity" ME: I see you missed my point. Yu say there will be apostles and prophets until there is a unity. Since the early saints did not achieve unity, there should be prophets and apostles until they achieved unity. Therefore, there should have been apostles and prophets through the centuries. You say Prophets and Apostles did not continue and so some restoration was needed. But if unity was not achieved, there should have been prophets and apostles through the centuries even up to 1820, for the whole JS First Vision revolves around many competing churches and creeds that were not united. Your whole interpretation of Ephesians 4 collapses. Paul: There will be apostles and prophets until unity is achieved. You guys: There were prophets and apostles until they were all murdered and doctrine was corrupted. SAYS YOU: "Who decides which essentials if there are no prophets?" ME: The Bible and the Book of Mormon (if it is wisdom in God that individuals read it)! However, whatever our disagreements as far as doctrine, we can still make the choice to be humble and put our disagreements aside for a common goal. There is unity even in the midst of disagreements; all work toward the same goal. With this unity, we don't need apostles and prophets, according to Paul. SAYS YOU: "The Scriptures do not say “Honour thy father and thy mother (unless you disagree with them)”! The same is applicable to those who are called of God." ME: We must, however, determine if those are called of God. Revelation 2:2 ....thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars: 2 Corinthians 11:13. For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. Your whole missionary effort is ruined if we apply' "Honour...those who are called of God" if untested. Elder Amulek: ....and so, Mr. Brown, after hearing our message, are you willing to join the LDSaints? Mr. Brown: Well, My Bible says in 1 Timothy 5:17, "Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine". I must now extend such honour to my pastor, Elder Nehor. I will ask him what he thinks about all this. I'll get back with you". Was there unity in 1492 when Columbus sailed the ocean blue? No, you say. Then there must have been prophets and apostles, for they would be on the job until unity was achieved. Ya know what I mean?